First of all...I'm not a huge fan of this move, but it doesn't stink quite as bad as some of the Conservative ad campaigns. We'll see exactly what it is about, but if it turns into a "Let's welcome these people to Canada and here's what you can do to help" sort of thing, I'll be fine with it.
Of course the comments make me want to torch a few cars. I've laid out one horrendous thread below.
It started me thinking...every argument against refugees seems to be one of two things:
Fear - They're all muslim terrorists and they're going to kill us all!
Greed - They're all going to live out their days as millionaire welfare bums!
I'm not going to try to argue against this. There hardly seems to be a point. But has there ever been a great triumph of humanity that involved either greed or fear? Have we ever looked back at a great moment in history that involved either of these things? I understand that there probably are people out there that are honestly scared about these two things coming to pass. It's your right to be, but I'm not going to let you drag me onto the wrong side of history.
And notice how many of these people decrying "handouts" are suggesting this money would be better off given to Seniors? Not to generalize....but most of the commenters don't seem to be young people...
Anyhow...some good info here if you want to start countering some of this stuff. And here.
Rae Farrell ·
Estimated cost to Canadian tax payers for each immigrant is 65 thousand dollars or approximately 2.5 billion dollars.
Then they will go directly on welfare for the rest of their lives.
While our veterans and our homeless are being forgotten about.
Have we lost our minds?
This knee jerk decision has nothing to do with compassion and everything to do with sound bites and politics.
Shame on JT and his Government..
Then they will go directly on welfare for the rest of their lives.
While our veterans and our homeless are being forgotten about.
Have we lost our minds?
This knee jerk decision has nothing to do with compassion and everything to do with sound bites and politics.
Shame on JT and his Government..
Zander Gonowich ·
Doug Earl
Gee, they get healthcare, education, roof over their head all for 27.000? Not buying that one.
Gee, they get healthcare, education, roof over their head all for 27.000? Not buying that one.
Rae Farrell ·
Doug Earl The 65 thousand dollars is an estimate made by the US centre for immigration studies for the first five years these refigees are on US soil, I can't imagine Canada can do it for any less.
As for my welfare remark I stand by my statement considering housing, food, child care, health care, language classes especially for the woman with children, I can't see them getting a job as most have 8 to ten children each by the time they are 40.
As for my welfare remark I stand by my statement considering housing, food, child care, health care, language classes especially for the woman with children, I can't see them getting a job as most have 8 to ten children each by the time they are 40.
Alex Droog ·
Doug Earl - They'd get the same welfare benefits as any other Canadian would, plus much better health care.
Linda Anne Janes ·
Works at Self-Employed
Carrie Liberte Because the reality is people on welfare in Canada don't get $27,000 a year. All health care is free in Canada. Some dental is covered for children and familes on welfare. Just the bare minimum. Depending on how good you are at kissing Union Social worker butts.
John Lark ·
Doug Earl Notice - Doug Earl DID NOT EXIST ON FACEBOOK until a few days ago - read the threads - he is a FAKE PERSON - a "sock puppet" in Internet terms - just a fake name for a hack, paid to advance the Government agenda - Stand Down Doug, you have been "outed" as a NON PERSON.
William Conrad ·
Doug Earl How much have you donated ?
William Conrad ·
Carrie Liberte They say that the migrants will be properly screened....then say that if they're not, that the ones found to have terrorist links will be able to use our legal resourses for free to the tune of possibly millions of dollars each.
John Moors ·
Doug Earl $27,000 in free dental ?
Ann Weissmuller
Doug Earl "Immigrants" - So they're 'immigrants' now? I thought they were refugees. Funny how things changed...
Mark Wolf ·
Doug Earl They will receive at a minimum assistnace with food, housing and clothing, as well as longer term language courses, welfare, and other social assistance. I could tell you that years ago, I'm talking mid-90s, I read an internal immigration paper showed that it cost Canadians $50,000 for each incoming refugee, at the time the hotspot was Sri Lanka. But for a more objective and recent source, how about the agency website that helps settle refugees? http://settlement.org/.../what-assistance-can-refugees.../
D.C. Prairies
Doug Earl ...Oh, it's ok to use "old stock" Canadians now? It's only bad when Harper says it, I guess.
We'd all love to see government statistics (including grants and 'start up money') that prove what you are saying.
There is no way you can say that with even a smidgon of certainty.
We'd all love to see government statistics (including grants and 'start up money') that prove what you are saying.
There is no way you can say that with even a smidgon of certainty.
D.C. Prairies
Linda Anne Janes ..."all health care is free...."
Oh my, how misinformed you are....
Oh my, how misinformed you are....
Al Stone
D.C. Prairies : I`m old stock Canadian. My family arrived here before Canada even existed. The worked in conditions people in Canada today cannot even immagine. Fought in wars to defend this country when it called. Yes, I do have a vested interest in the well being of Canada and do not want to see it go to some feel good policy.
Ron MacDonald ·
Doug Earl
I'd rather see that $27,000 spent on Canadian seniors who are living below the poverty line.
I'd rather see that $27,000 spent on Canadian seniors who are living below the poverty line.
Gerard Flynn ·
Doug Earl Not true Douggy boy .Although I am not against these refugees ,I am against what my Gov. is doing to bring them to my country .If you think the UN screening and vetting is enough then your 30 years in Journalism did not teach much .With the vast quantities that the UN are handling ,they are overwhelmed and are going to make mistakes .These refugees WILL be relying on Gov. hand outs for a minum 5 years and as a former CBC employee you should know this as this stat came from them. You can sugar coat it here on this tread ,all you want but your 27,000 dollar figure is way off .27,000 dollars a year will barely cover housing costs for 1 year . I personally don,t care ,let's be humanitarian ,let's be giving .But I want my Gov. to be up front with me on the true numbers and they are not 27,000 dollars per year .When my Gov. gives it to me straight so I can properly eveluate it as is my right as a tax payer ,then and only then will I give my full support
Michael Edward Bath ·
Works at I've never had a job.
Doug Earl Last report I saw (2011) said that 70% of the 50,000 or so Ethiopians we brought in in the 1990s were still living in poverty. You can find it on google. This was attributed to poor language and job skills as well as lack of integration. You're writing about approved / picked immigrants, not refugees.
Steve Miller
Doug Earl You're a great example of Canadian compassion. Thank you for taking part in helping the refugees. Dont listen to BS of some of these folks, many of them are motivated more by bigotry and xenophobia than legitimate concerns about security or the economy. They were anti-immigrant yesterday, they're anti-immigrant today, and they will be anti-immigrant tomorrow!
Tim Patrie ·
Linda Anne Janes - health care is NOT free, I have no ideal where you people get this idea from. It is paid for by your taxes, this money just doesn't form out of thin air.
BUT, that being said, you are also paying for the health care of all these refugees which they are getting for free since they are coming into Canada and have not paid anything into the system (yet, or perhaps never).
BUT, that being said, you are also paying for the health care of all these refugees which they are getting for free since they are coming into Canada and have not paid anything into the system (yet, or perhaps never).
D.C. Prairies
Al Stone ...Hey Al....so am I.
I believe you missed the point....
I believe you missed the point....
Wilson Guillaume ·
Well at least they will get their own hostiple and possible preferential health care before ever other canadian out of the deal. Perhaps this is Trueadus way of said he is the leader of the liberal party and not the leader of Canada.
Karl Green ·
Works at Department of National Defence
Linda Anne Janes healthcare is a cost it is not FREE which is the problem that people who dont work or pay taxes fail to grasp
Doug Earl
Zander Gonowich What you're missing is that sponworing groups are raising money through private donations to supplement that 27,000. Our group has raised about $40,000, bringing the total to $67,000. Does that sound more like it? That's what happens when people work together for a good cause: synergy.
Doug Earl
William Conrad $500 personally and my wife and I have privately raised $8,000 to help the Syrian family our group is sponsoring. Our group has so far raised just shy of $40,000 to supplement the small amount of money that will come from the government. Plus in the past months, I have spent about 70 hours attending group meetings, training sessions, picking up donations of furniture, clothing and household goods, finding housing for the family, etc etc etc. How about you? What positive steps have you taken to help fight the largest humanitarian crisis of our generation?
Peter King
Doug Earl Tell that to the people in the 'no-go' zones in France/Belgium
Doug Earl
Mark Wolf See my comments elsewhere in this thread about how private donors are supplementing government funds. I could also add that immigrants always add value to a country's economy in the long run; helping them when they arrive is an essential investment in their success, but alslo in ours. So while it costs $50,000 (or maybe a bit more) to welcome them to the country that is a cost, as you point out, to Canadians, not to the government. Well, to some Canadians--you know, the ones who overcome their xenophobia and make a contribution. Oh, maybe you don't know.
Winnie Holland
Doug Earl
Suggest you consult the Swedish statistics. Vast majority of welfare recipients are refugees.
Suggest you consult the Swedish statistics. Vast majority of welfare recipients are refugees.
Samantha Hobbes ·
If anyone wants them here after watch this video they are nuts..http://buzzpo.com/this-is-the-most-disturbing-muslim.../
Doug Earl
William Conrad
http://globalnews.ca/.../heres-how-refugees-are.../...
There is so much information out there about the near-zero number of Muslim immigrants who have been even suspected of terrorist activities once re-settled, I'm not going to bother to repeat it.
On screening, the refugees being considered for entry to Canada are 78 per cent women, children and the elderly. All 100 per cent of the refugee claimants have been screened by the UNHCR and receive a further screening by Canadian officials before they are brought to the country. There are more than enough people who fall int...See More
http://globalnews.ca/.../heres-how-refugees-are.../...
There is so much information out there about the near-zero number of Muslim immigrants who have been even suspected of terrorist activities once re-settled, I'm not going to bother to repeat it.
On screening, the refugees being considered for entry to Canada are 78 per cent women, children and the elderly. All 100 per cent of the refugee claimants have been screened by the UNHCR and receive a further screening by Canadian officials before they are brought to the country. There are more than enough people who fall int...See More
Christine VanAllen
Doug Earl WOW Doug !! 27,000 is a lot more than what the Government is paying Canadian Welfare recipients ! Chances are they don't speak English and therefore be on welfare for quite some time making much more than the average Canadian recipient ! They have nothing to offer our Country but stress and expense ! We need to take better care of our own citizens before we jump into this wagon of free loaders!
Doug Earl
Michael Edward Bath I can't find that; a link would be helplful. I did find a citation that said the unemployment for Ethiopian immigrants to Canada is four times higher than the national average, which I don't doubt. Given the attitudes expressed in forums like this, I'm actually surprised any of them can find jobs. But the same could be said for every class of immigrants and refugees we have welcomed over the past century. It's not easy. People didn't want to give Italians and Portuguese jobs when they first came either, and they were white. A generation or two later, how are they doing? And what if they hadn't been allowed to come? Canada's population would have declined, along with GDP. Big picture over time.
Millie Stovel ·
Linda Anne Janes Our health care is not free, we pay taxes to get it.
Doug Earl
Winnie Holland Well of course they are. If refugees were wealthy, they wouldn't be refugees. In Sweden, the social safety net for citizens is so extensive that relatively fewer people on welfare. It's mostly the worst off cases like......refugees. So that statistic doesn't mean much.
Having said that, I am well aware that countries who take refugees have to pony up a significant number of resources to bring in refugees.
The difference between me and you appears to be a) I think it's worth it, and pays off in the long run and b) it's the right thing to do.
Further to point a): every single Canadian outside the indigenous populaton is descended from immigrants. If refugees and immigrants didn't become self-sufficient and net contributors to Canada over the long run, then every single Canadian would be on welfare and Canada would have gone bankrupt long ago. So of course they do. What you see as welfare, I see as an investment in the future of Canada.
Having said that, I am well aware that countries who take refugees have to pony up a significant number of resources to bring in refugees.
The difference between me and you appears to be a) I think it's worth it, and pays off in the long run and b) it's the right thing to do.
Further to point a): every single Canadian outside the indigenous populaton is descended from immigrants. If refugees and immigrants didn't become self-sufficient and net contributors to Canada over the long run, then every single Canadian would be on welfare and Canada would have gone bankrupt long ago. So of course they do. What you see as welfare, I see as an investment in the future of Canada.
Doug Earl
Samantha Hobbes I'm so sorry you can't recognize manipulative propaganda when you see it. Or watch something like than and then ask yourself: can this really be true? If you lived in the 1930s you would be watching Leni Riefenstahl movies and thinking how great those Nazis look in their cool uniforms and, gosh those dirty Jews really should be exterminated, shouldn't they?
Khanh Huynh ·
Rae Farrell: I guess you just picked the numbers from thin air...The official estimates point to 1.2Bn in 6 years...Remember, Canada, the US and Europe are lands of immigrants. I am among the first wave of Vietnamese refugees landed in Canada in 1975. I ve got a job 2 weeks afterward and I never relied on wellfare or even EI payments ever since. Do not fall to the panic folks like those who support the GOP in the US and ultimately become victim of the IS propoganda machine and help them recruit more extremists to their cause. Of course, we have to screen their backgrounds but never let caution to override compassion!. Look at Paris and what President F. Hollande declared to welcome Syrian refugees, and look at Germany's comittment to bring in at least 800k refugees!
Elsie Gasper
Doug Earl So tell us, where does the Govt get its money if not from Canadians?
Pierce Achtymichuk ·
Doug Earl - not buying it. these fallacious statments do not cover the real costs. welfare dependancy is just one of the factors there are multiudious other costs such as medical, educational and other factors.
one only has to look at the record of Somali and Afgan regugees and immigrants to see that there is a problem.
That and undeniable horror stories about welfare dependancy and soical costs from Sweden, Denmark, the UK and France ..even Germany
This should give us pause to consider.
Its an outright lie and brainless propaganda to state that all refugees and immigrants contribute to...See More
one only has to look at the record of Somali and Afgan regugees and immigrants to see that there is a problem.
That and undeniable horror stories about welfare dependancy and soical costs from Sweden, Denmark, the UK and France ..even Germany
This should give us pause to consider.
Its an outright lie and brainless propaganda to state that all refugees and immigrants contribute to...See More
Thomas Richard Mackey ·
Linda Anne Janes Yes "free medical" costs thousands of dollars that we pay in BC each and every year (for family), not sure how many other provinces enforce the payments every month for "free medical", but we definitely pay for medical in BC.
Linda Anne Janes ·
Works at Self-Employed
D.C. Prairies pathetic loser ."all health care is free...."
Oh my, how misinformed you are....
Oh my, how misinformed you are....
Tim Patrie ·
Doug Earl - never did, my comment was addressed to Linda Anne Janes. wink emoticon
Spencer Ferguson
Doug Earl Yup.
Cite your sources for that nonsense.
Cite your sources for that nonsense.
Maryanne Weis
@Ray Ferrel..most serian refugees are well educated. Refugees don't usually go on welfare longer than a year or two. I do agree about our homeless though.
There needs to be a system the homeless are able to live with that allows them the option of having a place they can call their own. The homeless have a right to a welfare check but aren't always able to manage themselves to follow the instruction set out to get to it or cash it.
There needs to be a system the homeless are able to live with that allows them the option of having a place they can call their own. The homeless have a right to a welfare check but aren't always able to manage themselves to follow the instruction set out to get to it or cash it.
Joanne Singer ·
Ron MacDonald Amen...that is what I would vote for.
Judy Scorgie
Zander Gonowich Maybe we should start lining up and demanding health and dentalcare as they will get, and all the extra benefits. Also, the fact that most will be on welfare , for ever, especially the women, if they don't get the top paying jobs they think they deserve.
Oliver Puma
Doug Earl The $27,000 per family does not take in to account all the shared costs of secutity checks, flights, temporery housing upon arrival, etc
Oliver Puma
Doug Earl In Quebec, unemployment amongst immigrants is 50% higher than for Canadian born .
Thomas de Aynesworth ·
Rae Farrell I stand by your statement too. Just look at the numbers. 1.2bn CAD? Are we insane?
Frank Learning
Doug Earl Who the f*** are the 'old stock Canadians' that you're babbling about. If it's us senior veterans, you should be bloody well thanking us for your well being instead of belitteling us you ungrateful little twit !!
Rara Roland
Doug Earl that is 27,000 that could have been spent on Canadian citizens in desperate need.
Thomas Conway ·
A bigot does not want the facts. He dreams them up to suit his fearful world view.
Doug Earl
Oliver Puma it doesn't take into account the cost of the security checks, which is minimal, because it mostly involves checking names and fingerprints against existing databases and, even cheaper, giving priority to women, children, and the elderly, who are generally a security risk of zero.
Flights are actually a loan, which refugees must repay. Temporary housing of sponsored refugees is covered by the group sponsoring the refugees. These groups either donate or raise the funds to cover these expenses for the first year.
Flights are actually a loan, which refugees must repay. Temporary housing of sponsored refugees is covered by the group sponsoring the refugees. These groups either donate or raise the funds to cover these expenses for the first year.
Doug Earl
Oliver Puma Depends how you define immigrant. Of course unemployment is higher in early years after arrival, especially for immigrants still learning English, or who have serious health issues. But in the long term, you are not correct. And both immigration and accepting refugees are long-term investments.
Doug Earl
Rara Roland Are we so poor as a nation that we can't do both? I think not. Are you out there gathering private donations for homeless Canadians? In other words, what are you doing to see that the Canadian poor are taken care of, other than trying to prevent the rest of us from doing something to help refugees? How does that help anyone? I suspect your main contribution to the debate is to oppose the collection of taxes for welfare bums no matter where they come from.
Michelle Li ·
D.C. Prairies
In Manitoba if you are on Employment and Income Assistance, you get dental, vision, prescriptions and a host of other medical benefits. For free.
Otherwise, you have to pay for that out of your own pocket. NO ONE pays for my eyeglasses. NO ONE pays when I go to the dentist. NO ONE pays when I need a prescription. Except ME.
In Manitoba if you are on Employment and Income Assistance, you get dental, vision, prescriptions and a host of other medical benefits. For free.
Otherwise, you have to pay for that out of your own pocket. NO ONE pays for my eyeglasses. NO ONE pays when I go to the dentist. NO ONE pays when I need a prescription. Except ME.
Michelle Li ·
Tim Patrie
Health care is free for Manitobans on Employment and Income Assistance. It is FREE for them. They do not pay for vision, dental or prescriptions and other benefits. I pay for my glasses, my dental and my prescriptions. I also pay for their benefits through my taxes.
Health care is free for Manitobans on Employment and Income Assistance. It is FREE for them. They do not pay for vision, dental or prescriptions and other benefits. I pay for my glasses, my dental and my prescriptions. I also pay for their benefits through my taxes.
Michelle Li ·
Karl Green
If you are on Employment and Income Assistance in Manitoba, then you pay nothing for your healthcare. That includes vision, dental and prescriptions. So, it is free. It's just not free for those of us who aren't on assistance. We have to pay for what we need plus we pay for what the others need. I can't afford to pay for new glasses yet I'll be paying for xxxx's glasses just be he or she is a refugee. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it.
If you are on Employment and Income Assistance in Manitoba, then you pay nothing for your healthcare. That includes vision, dental and prescriptions. So, it is free. It's just not free for those of us who aren't on assistance. We have to pay for what we need plus we pay for what the others need. I can't afford to pay for new glasses yet I'll be paying for xxxx's glasses just be he or she is a refugee. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it.
Michelle Li ·
Maryanne Weis
where are the stats that show "most serian (sic) refugees are well educated" and "Refugees don't usually go on welfare longer than a year or two".
where are the stats that show "most serian (sic) refugees are well educated" and "Refugees don't usually go on welfare longer than a year or two".
Bj Sims ·
Doug Earl $27,000.00 per year? thats $2,250.00 per month None of our seniors receive that much.
Larry Cook ·
Works at City of Edmonton
Zander Gonowich If they all live in one little place they could get by on 27,000Ks per year. Usually they will all live like rats and just pile into one apt.
Nick Adams ·
Works at Self-Employed
Doug Earl they should be getting zero aid. You want to sponsoring them you can go ahead and foot the bill
Jerry Atrick
Right on the money Rae. There is NO upside here.
Years of security worry.
Years of "Syrian Debt" to support these people.
Id rather have this money go to Canada's MSA program or paying off our debt.
Years of security worry.
Years of "Syrian Debt" to support these people.
Id rather have this money go to Canada's MSA program or paying off our debt.
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