Weekly Highlights from our Conservative Overlords

Weekly Highlights from our Conservative Overlords

Friday, December 4, 2015

Cheap and Scared

There I go again, feeling too happy about things.  So I read a National Post article about an ad campaign to promote the Syrian Refugee Program.

First of all...I'm not a huge fan of this move, but it doesn't stink quite as bad as some of the Conservative ad campaigns.  We'll see exactly what it is about, but if it turns into a "Let's welcome these people to Canada and here's what you can do to help" sort of thing, I'll be fine with it.

Of course the comments make me want to torch a few cars.  I've laid out one horrendous thread below.

It started me thinking...every argument against refugees seems to be one of two things:

Fear - They're all muslim terrorists and they're going to kill us all!

Greed - They're all going to live out their days as millionaire welfare bums!

I'm not going to try to argue against this.  There hardly seems to be a point.  But has there ever been a great triumph of humanity that involved either greed or fear?  Have we ever looked back at a great moment in history that involved either of these things?  I understand that there probably are people out there that are honestly scared about these two things coming to pass.  It's your right to be, but I'm not going to let you drag me onto the wrong side of history.

And notice how many of these people decrying "handouts" are suggesting this money would be better off given to Seniors?  Not to generalize....but most of the commenters don't seem to be young people...

Anyhow...some good info here if you want to start countering some of this stuff.  And here.

Rae Farrell · 
Estimated cost to Canadian tax payers for each immigrant is 65 thousand dollars or approximately 2.5 billion dollars.
Then they will go directly on welfare for the rest of their lives.
While our veterans and our homeless are being forgotten about.
Have we lost our minds?
This knee jerk decision has nothing to do with compassion and everything to do with sound bites and politics.
Shame on JT and his Government..
Like · Reply · 139 · Nov 19, 2015 5:00pm

Doug Earl
Nope. Immigrants in general rely less on welfare then old stock Canadians. No idea where you get 65,000 per immigrant, either. The Syrian family we are sponsoring will get nowhere near that in government aid. More like 27,000.
Like · Reply · 13 · Nov 19, 2015 7:35pm
Zander Gonowich · 
Doug Earl
Gee, they get healthcare, education, roof over their head all for 27.000? Not buying that one.
Like · Reply · 62 · Nov 19, 2015 7:47pm
Rae Farrell · 
Doug Earl The 65 thousand dollars is an estimate made by the US centre for immigration studies for the first five years these refigees are on US soil, I can't imagine Canada can do it for any less.
As for my welfare remark I stand by my statement considering housing, food, child care, health care, language classes especially for the woman with children, I can't see them getting a job as most have 8 to ten children each by the time they are 40.
Like · Reply · 52 · Nov 19, 2015 7:56pm
Alex Droog · 
Doug Earl - They'd get the same welfare benefits as any other Canadian would, plus much better health care.
Like · Reply · 13 · Nov 19, 2015 8:19pm
Linda Anne Janes · 
Works at Self-Employed
Carrie Liberte Because the reality is people on welfare in Canada don't get $27,000 a year. All health care is free in Canada. Some dental is covered for children and familes on welfare. Just the bare minimum. Depending on how good you are at kissing Union Social worker butts.
Like · Reply · 7 · Nov 19, 2015 8:52pm
John Lark · 
Doug Earl Notice - Doug Earl DID NOT EXIST ON FACEBOOK until a few days ago - read the threads - he is a FAKE PERSON - a "sock puppet" in Internet terms - just a fake name for a hack, paid to advance the Government agenda - Stand Down Doug, you have been "outed" as a NON PERSON.
Like · Reply · 11 · Nov 19, 2015 9:36pm
William Conrad · 
Doug Earl How much have you donated ?
Like · Reply · 5 · Nov 19, 2015 9:47pm
William Conrad · 
Carrie Liberte They say that the migrants will be properly screened....then say that if they're not, that the ones found to have terrorist links will be able to use our legal resourses for free to the tune of possibly millions of dollars each.
Like · Reply · 11 · Nov 19, 2015 9:58pm
John Moors · 
Doug Earl $27,000 in free dental ?
Like · Reply · 5 · Nov 19, 2015 10:13pm
Ann Weissmuller
Doug Earl "Immigrants" - So they're 'immigrants' now? I thought they were refugees. Funny how things changed...
Like · Reply · 12 · Nov 19, 2015 11:33pm
Mark Wolf · 
Doug Earl They will receive at a minimum assistnace with food, housing and clothing, as well as longer term language courses, welfare, and other social assistance. I could tell you that years ago, I'm talking mid-90s, I read an internal immigration paper showed that it cost Canadians $50,000 for each incoming refugee, at the time the hotspot was Sri Lanka. But for a more objective and recent source, how about the agency website that helps settle refugees? http://settlement.org/.../what-assistance-can-refugees.../
Like · Reply · 7 · Nov 20, 2015 3:51am
D.C. Prairies
Doug Earl ...Oh, it's ok to use "old stock" Canadians now? It's only bad when Harper says it, I guess.

We'd all love to see government statistics (including grants and 'start up money') that prove what you are saying.
There is no way you can say that with even a smidgon of certainty.
Like · Reply · 7 · Nov 20, 2015 4:41am
D.C. Prairies
Linda Anne Janes ..."all health care is free...."

Oh my, how misinformed you are....
Like · Reply · 5 · Nov 20, 2015 4:42am
Al Stone
D.C. Prairies : I`m old stock Canadian. My family arrived here before Canada even existed. The worked in conditions people in Canada today cannot even immagine. Fought in wars to defend this country when it called. Yes, I do have a vested interest in the well being of Canada and do not want to see it go to some feel good policy.
Like · Reply · 8 · Nov 20, 2015 4:53am
Ron MacDonald · 
Doug Earl

I'd rather see that $27,000 spent on Canadian seniors who are living below the poverty line.
Like · Reply · 8 · Nov 20, 2015 5:05am
Gerard Flynn · 
Doug Earl Not true Douggy boy .Although I am not against these refugees ,I am against what my Gov. is doing to bring them to my country .If you think the UN screening and vetting is enough then your 30 years in Journalism did not teach much .With the vast quantities that the UN are handling ,they are overwhelmed and are going to make mistakes .These refugees WILL be relying on Gov. hand outs for a minum 5 years and as a former CBC employee you should know this as this stat came from them. You can sugar coat it here on this tread ,all you want but your 27,000 dollar figure is way off .27,000 dollars a year will barely cover housing costs for 1 year . I personally don,t care ,let's be humanitarian ,let's be giving .But I want my Gov. to be up front with me on the true numbers and they are not 27,000 dollars per year .When my Gov. gives it to me straight so I can properly eveluate it as is my right as a tax payer ,then and only then will I give my full support
Like · Reply · 5 · Nov 20, 2015 5:07am
Michael Edward Bath · 
Doug Earl Last report I saw (2011) said that 70% of the 50,000 or so Ethiopians we brought in in the 1990s were still living in poverty. You can find it on google. This was attributed to poor language and job skills as well as lack of integration. You're writing about approved / picked immigrants, not refugees.
Like · Reply · 5 · Nov 20, 2015 5:17am
Steve Miller
Doug Earl You're a great example of Canadian compassion. Thank you for taking part in helping the refugees. Dont listen to BS of some of these folks, many of them are motivated more by bigotry and xenophobia than legitimate concerns about security or the economy. They were anti-immigrant yesterday, they're anti-immigrant today, and they will be anti-immigrant tomorrow!
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 5:37am
Tim Patrie · 
Linda Anne Janes - health care is NOT free, I have no ideal where you people get this idea from. It is paid for by your taxes, this money just doesn't form out of thin air.

BUT, that being said, you are also paying for the health care of all these refugees which they are getting for free since they are coming into Canada and have not paid anything into the system (yet, or perhaps never).
Like · Reply · 7 · Nov 20, 2015 5:41am
D.C. Prairies
Al Stone ...Hey Al....so am I.
I believe you missed the point....
Like · Reply · 2 · Nov 20, 2015 5:46am
Wilson Guillaume · 
Well at least they will get their own hostiple and possible preferential health care before ever other canadian out of the deal. Perhaps this is Trueadus way of said he is the leader of the liberal party and not the leader of Canada.
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 6:31am
Karl Green · 
Linda Anne Janes healthcare is a cost it is not FREE which is the problem that people who dont work or pay taxes fail to grasp
Like · Reply · 3 · Nov 20, 2015 6:39am
Doug Earl
Zander Gonowich What you're missing is that sponworing groups are raising money through private donations to supplement that 27,000. Our group has raised about $40,000, bringing the total to $67,000. Does that sound more like it? That's what happens when people work together for a good cause: synergy.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 6:42am
Doug Earl
Carrie Liberte No I don't. Right at the moment my main occupation is correcting misinformation on the internet.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 6:57am
Doug Earl
William Conrad $500 personally and my wife and I have privately raised $8,000 to help the Syrian family our group is sponsoring. Our group has so far raised just shy of $40,000 to supplement the small amount of money that will come from the government. Plus in the past months, I have spent about 70 hours attending group meetings, training sessions, picking up donations of furniture, clothing and household goods, finding housing for the family, etc etc etc. How about you? What positive steps have you taken to help fight the largest humanitarian crisis of our generation?
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:00am
Doug Earl
Ann Weissmuller

im·mi·grant ˈiməɡrənt/
noun: immigrant; plural noun: immigrants

a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:02am
Peter King
Doug Earl Tell that to the people in the 'no-go' zones in France/Belgium
Like · Reply · 2 · Nov 20, 2015 7:03am
Doug Earl
Mark Wolf See my comments elsewhere in this thread about how private donors are supplementing government funds. I could also add that immigrants always add value to a country's economy in the long run; helping them when they arrive is an essential investment in their success, but alslo in ours. So while it costs $50,000 (or maybe a bit more) to welcome them to the country that is a cost, as you point out, to Canadians, not to the government. Well, to some Canadians--you know, the ones who overcome their xenophobia and make a contribution. Oh, maybe you don't know.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:05am
Winnie Holland
Doug Earl
Suggest you consult the Swedish statistics. Vast majority of welfare recipients are refugees.
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 7:05am
Samantha Hobbes · 
If anyone wants them here after watch this video they are nuts..http://buzzpo.com/this-is-the-most-disturbing-muslim.../
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:12am
Doug Earl
William Conrad


There is so much information out there about the near-zero number of Muslim immigrants who have been even suspected of terrorist activities once re-settled, I'm not going to bother to repeat it.

On screening, the refugees being considered for entry to Canada are 78 per cent women, children and the elderly. All 100 per cent of the refugee claimants have been screened by the UNHCR and receive a further screening by Canadian officials before they are brought to the country. There are more than enough people who fall int...See More
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 7:34amEdited
Doug Earl
D.C. Prairies Al Stone I knew using that phrase would smoke out some indignant fool who wouldn't get the sarcasm. Looks like I got two of them.

Interesting that you equate the well being of Canada with a fear and loathing of strangers.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:20am
Doug Earl
Ron MacDonald Then do something about it.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:20am
Doug Earl
Gerard Flynn Read my other posts here, I've already responded to all your points raised by others.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:21am
Christine VanAllen
Doug Earl WOW Doug !! 27,000 is a lot more than what the Government is paying Canadian Welfare recipients ! Chances are they don't speak English and therefore be on welfare for quite some time making much more than the average Canadian recipient ! They have nothing to offer our Country but stress and expense ! We need to take better care of our own citizens before we jump into this wagon of free loaders!
Like · Reply · 2 · Nov 20, 2015 7:23am
Doug Earl
Michael Edward Bath I can't find that; a link would be helplful. I did find a citation that said the unemployment for Ethiopian immigrants to Canada is four times higher than the national average, which I don't doubt. Given the attitudes expressed in forums like this, I'm actually surprised any of them can find jobs. But the same could be said for every class of immigrants and refugees we have welcomed over the past century. It's not easy. People didn't want to give Italians and Portuguese jobs when they first came either, and they were white. A generation or two later, how are they doing? And what if they hadn't been allowed to come? Canada's population would have declined, along with GDP. Big picture over time.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:28am
Doug Earl
Steve Miller They haven't always been anti-immigration. Certainly their ancestors were VERY pro-immigration, having come here from another country themselves. Thanks for the support.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:30am
Doug Earl
Tim Patrie Not sure who said health care is free, wasn't me. But since you're well-versed on the subject, can you tell me what percentage of health care expenditure in Canada goes to refugees?
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:33am
Doug Earl
Wilson Guillaume Totally misinformed comment, poorly spelled, from Miami.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:35am
Millie Stovel · 
Linda Anne Janes Our health care is not free, we pay taxes to get it.
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 7:38am
Doug Earl
Winnie Holland Well of course they are. If refugees were wealthy, they wouldn't be refugees. In Sweden, the social safety net for citizens is so extensive that relatively fewer people on welfare. It's mostly the worst off cases like......refugees. So that statistic doesn't mean much.

Having said that, I am well aware that countries who take refugees have to pony up a significant number of resources to bring in refugees.
The difference between me and you appears to be a) I think it's worth it, and pays off in the long run and b) it's the right thing to do.

Further to point a): every single Canadian outside the indigenous populaton is descended from immigrants. If refugees and immigrants didn't become self-sufficient and net contributors to Canada over the long run, then every single Canadian would be on welfare and Canada would have gone bankrupt long ago. So of course they do. What you see as welfare, I see as an investment in the future of Canada.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:43am
Doug Earl
Samantha Hobbes I'm so sorry you can't recognize manipulative propaganda when you see it. Or watch something like than and then ask yourself: can this really be true? If you lived in the 1930s you would be watching Leni Riefenstahl movies and thinking how great those Nazis look in their cool uniforms and, gosh those dirty Jews really should be exterminated, shouldn't they?
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:47am
Khanh Huynh · 
Rae Farrell: I guess you just picked the numbers from thin air...The official estimates point to 1.2Bn in 6 years...Remember, Canada, the US and Europe are lands of immigrants. I am among the first wave of Vietnamese refugees landed in Canada in 1975. I ve got a job 2 weeks afterward and I never relied on wellfare or even EI payments ever since. Do not fall to the panic folks like those who support the GOP in the US and ultimately become victim of the IS propoganda machine and help them recruit more extremists to their cause. Of course, we have to screen their backgrounds but never let caution to override compassion!. Look at Paris and what President F. Hollande declared to welcome Syrian refugees, and look at Germany's comittment to bring in at least 800k refugees!
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 7:48am
Elsie Gasper
Doug Earl So tell us, where does the Govt get its money if not from Canadians?
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 7:57am
Pierce Achtymichuk · 
Doug Earl - not buying it. these fallacious statments do not cover the real costs. welfare dependancy is just one of the factors there are multiudious other costs such as medical, educational and other factors.

one only has to look at the record of Somali and Afgan regugees and immigrants to see that there is a problem.

That and undeniable horror stories about welfare dependancy and soical costs from Sweden, Denmark, the UK and France ..even Germany

This should give us pause to consider.

Its an outright lie and brainless propaganda to state that all refugees and immigrants contribute to...See More
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 8:19am
Thomas Richard Mackey · 
Linda Anne Janes Yes "free medical" costs thousands of dollars that we pay in BC each and every year (for family), not sure how many other provinces enforce the payments every month for "free medical", but we definitely pay for medical in BC.
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 8:30am
Linda Anne Janes · 
Works at Self-Employed
D.C. Prairies pathetic loser ."all health care is free...."

Oh my, how misinformed you are....
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 8:43am
Tim Patrie · 
Doug Earl - never did, my comment was addressed to Linda Anne Janes. wink emoticon
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 8:49am
Spencer Ferguson
Doug Earl Yup.
Cite your sources for that nonsense.
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 9:44am
Maryanne Weis
@Ray Ferrel..most serian refugees are well educated. Refugees don't usually go on welfare longer than a year or two. I do agree about our homeless though.
There needs to be a system the homeless are able to live with that allows them the option of having a place they can call their own. The homeless have a right to a welfare check but aren't always able to manage themselves to follow the instruction set out to get to it or cash it.
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 10:00am
Joanne Singer · 
Ron MacDonald Amen...that is what I would vote for.
Like · Reply · Nov 20, 2015 12:12pm
Judy Scorgie
Zander Gonowich Maybe we should start lining up and demanding health and dentalcare as they will get, and all the extra benefits. Also, the fact that most will be on welfare , for ever, especially the women, if they don't get the top paying jobs they think they deserve.
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 12:40pm
Oliver Puma
Doug Earl The $27,000 per family does not take in to account all the shared costs of secutity checks, flights, temporery housing upon arrival, etc
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 1:19pm
Oliver Puma
Doug Earl In Quebec, unemployment amongst immigrants is 50% higher than for Canadian born .
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 1:21pm
Thomas de Aynesworth · 
Rae Farrell I stand by your statement too. Just look at the numbers. 1.2bn CAD? Are we insane?
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 2:18pm
Frank Learning
Doug Earl Who the f*** are the 'old stock Canadians' that you're babbling about. If it's us senior veterans, you should be bloody well thanking us for your well being instead of belitteling us you ungrateful little twit !!
Like · Reply · 1 · Nov 20, 2015 4:29pm
Rara Roland
Doug Earl that is 27,000 that could have been spent on Canadian citizens in desperate need.
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 6:16am
Rara Roland
Ann Weissmuller Migrants would be a better term.
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 6:16am
Thomas Conway · 
A bigot does not want the facts. He dreams them up to suit his fearful world view.
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 7:22am
Doug Earl
Pierce Achtymichuk Sure then let's just let them all die. Good solution.
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 10:40am
Doug Earl
Oliver Puma it doesn't take into account the cost of the security checks, which is minimal, because it mostly involves checking names and fingerprints against existing databases and, even cheaper, giving priority to women, children, and the elderly, who are generally a security risk of zero.

Flights are actually a loan, which refugees must repay. Temporary housing of sponsored refugees is covered by the group sponsoring the refugees. These groups either donate or raise the funds to cover these expenses for the first year.
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 10:43am
Doug Earl
Oliver Puma Depends how you define immigrant. Of course unemployment is higher in early years after arrival, especially for immigrants still learning English, or who have serious health issues. But in the long term, you are not correct. And both immigration and accepting refugees are long-term investments.
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 10:45am
Doug Earl
Rara Roland Are we so poor as a nation that we can't do both? I think not. Are you out there gathering private donations for homeless Canadians? In other words, what are you doing to see that the Canadian poor are taken care of, other than trying to prevent the rest of us from doing something to help refugees? How does that help anyone? I suspect your main contribution to the debate is to oppose the collection of taxes for welfare bums no matter where they come from.
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 10:47am
Jerry Shulmistra · 
Doug Earl even 27000 is too much
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 7:33pm
Michelle Li · 
D.C. Prairies

In Manitoba if you are on Employment and Income Assistance, you get dental, vision, prescriptions and a host of other medical benefits. For free.

Otherwise, you have to pay for that out of your own pocket. NO ONE pays for my eyeglasses. NO ONE pays when I go to the dentist. NO ONE pays when I need a prescription. Except ME.
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 8:32pm
Michelle Li · 
Tim Patrie

Health care is free for Manitobans on Employment and Income Assistance. It is FREE for them. They do not pay for vision, dental or prescriptions and other benefits. I pay for my glasses, my dental and my prescriptions. I also pay for their benefits through my taxes.
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 8:37pm
Michelle Li · 
Karl Green

If you are on Employment and Income Assistance in Manitoba, then you pay nothing for your healthcare. That includes vision, dental and prescriptions. So, it is free. It's just not free for those of us who aren't on assistance. We have to pay for what we need plus we pay for what the others need. I can't afford to pay for new glasses yet I'll be paying for xxxx's glasses just be he or she is a refugee. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it.
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 8:40pm
Michelle Li · 
Maryanne Weis

where are the stats that show "most serian (sic) refugees are well educated" and "Refugees don't usually go on welfare longer than a year or two".
Like · Reply · Nov 21, 2015 9:00pm
Bj Sims · 
Doug Earl $27,000.00 per year? thats $2,250.00 per month None of our seniors receive that much.
Like · Reply · Nov 22, 2015 4:26pm
Larry Cook · 
Works at City of Edmonton
Zander Gonowich If they all live in one little place they could get by on 27,000Ks per year. Usually they will all live like rats and just pile into one apt.
Like · Reply · Nov 22, 2015 6:31pm
Nick Adams · 
Works at Self-Employed
Doug Earl they should be getting zero aid. You want to sponsoring them you can go ahead and foot the bill
Like · Reply · Nov 22, 2015 6:59pm
Jerry Atrick
Right on the money Rae. There is NO upside here.
Years of security worry.
Years of "Syrian Debt" to support these people.
Id rather have this money go to Canada's MSA program or paying off our debt.
Like · Reply · Nov 23, 2015 6:47pm
Malcolm Underhill
no ray we lost our government
Like · Reply · Nov 24, 2015 5:56am